Program#L11—“The Theological Adventures of Johnny Lukewarm andPastor Loophole:  More Grace Loopholes”


Radio Show Transcript, 2001, Persuade TheWorld Ministries, Gordon James Klingenschmitt, Servant.  Copyingand distribution (without editing) is highly encouraged. 


<Manymore transcripts and free MP3 radio shows CLICK HERE>


Opening introduction by MarkMcWilliams…

Welcome and thank you for joining this radiobroadcast of Persuade The World Ministries.  You’reabout to hear our radio production of the book written and taughtby Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled “License To Sin,The Number One Reason America Is Losing Its MoralFoundation.”  If you call us in the next hour,we’ll mail you a free cassette tape of today’sbroadcast, which you can copy and give to your friends.  Justcall our toll-free phone number:  866-Obey-God.  That’stoll free, 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  Gordon James Klingenschmittis a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, and aseminary graduate of Regent University, holding both M.B.A. andMaster of Divinity degrees.  He’s also the founder andservant of Persuade The World Ministries, a 501(c3) tax-exemptreligious non-profit corporation in Colorado Springs, dedicatedto persuading individuals in America and throughout the world toforsake their sins and submit their hearts and minds to theloving rulership of our Lord, Jesus Christ.  And now withtoday’s teaching, here is Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching by Gordon James Klingenschmitt

Thanks Mark.  Today we continue ourmini-drama entitled “The Theological Adventures of JohnnyLukewarm and Pastor Loophole.”  You remember ourcharacters:  Johnny Lukewarm is a non-Christian who callshimself a Christian.  He wants to go to heaven when he dies,but doesn’t want to make Jesus the Lord of his life.  Sohe gets his advice from Pastor Loophole, who tells him everythinghis itching ears want to hear.

           (Higher) “Pastor Loophole, I’m very upset about thisparticular passage of scripture.  It seems as though God iscommanding me to do something I really don’t want to do. Do I really have to repent, and stop sinning, and obey God? Or is there some other alternative? 

           (Lower) “Why, certainly there is, Johnny Lukewarm, you justrelax.  I can offer you dozens of alternatives, and give youvery logical reasons why you don’t have to obey God.” 

           (Higher) “Oh, thank goodness.  For a minute there, Ithought I’d actually have to change my behavior and obeyGod!”  Johnny breathes a sigh of relief.  He sitsforward eagerly, with his itching ears searching for some way ofescape from the Holy Spirit’s conviction.  But theSpirit of God is grieved away, and He slowly withdraws hisconviction from Johnny’s life. 


(Start) Nowlet’s continue with Loophole #6, entitled “Guilt is notfrom God.”

           (Lower) “Watch out, Johnny, for the accuser of thebrethren,” says Pastor Loophole, referring to the devil. “If you ever hear an inner voice pronouncing you“GUILTY!”  just ignore it.  That voice comesfrom the devil, trying to make you forget what Jesus did for youon the cross.  Jesus forgives your sins even while youcontinue to enjoy them, even if you don’t repent.  Soif you feel ashamed of your sinful behavior, stop feeling so bad! Guilt doesn’t come from God.” 

           (Higher) “Wow, thanks, Pastor Loophole; that reallyhelps,” says Johnny Lukewarm.  “Now I don’tfeel so guilty.  Now I can suppress all that conviction andguilt I’ve been feeling.” 


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice. Let’s rightly divide the word of truth, and separate thetruth from the lies in the advice given by Pastor Loophole. First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat the devil accuses believers of their sins when he’stalking to God.  But the lie is that every time you feelguilty, it’s the devil who’s making you feel guilty. And the lie is that Jesus forgives your sins even while youcontinue to enjoy them.  But here’s the truth toreplace those lies: When you feel guilty about your sins,that’s your conscience speaking, not the devil.  Whenyou feel convicted, that’s the Holy Spirit convicting you torepent!  He’s finding you guilty, just like in a courtof law, when a jury convicts you as guilty.  The Bible says,When He [the Holy Spirit] comes, he will convict theworld of guilt in regard to sin…[1]  God himself might be convicting you ofguilt in regard to sin, so he can then persuade you to forsakethat sin, and set you free from it. 

           Watch out for Pastor Loophole’s lies, when he tells you toignore your conscience, ignore the Holy Spirit.  TheSpirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon thefaith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whoseconsciences have been seared as with a hot iron. [2]   PastorLoophole, if you’re out there listening, your conscience hasbeen seared as with a hot iron.  That’s why you tellpeople that guilt comes only from the devil.  Butthat’s a lie!  The truth is that when the devil acts asthe accuser of the brethren, he accuses you before God, not toyour face.  The devil wants to remind God about your sins,not you.  The devil wouldn’t warn you about your sins,because he’s afraid you might repent!  No, the devilwould rather whisper in your ear just how holy you are, tellingyou that you don’t have to repent.  But don’tlisten to that voice.  No, listen to the voice of the HolySpirit, who convicts you, and even accuses you, and thenpersuades you, to forsake your sins and submit your heart andmind to the loving rulership of God.  If you feel guilty,confess your sins to God.  He’ll cleanse you.  He’llset you free.  But not if you suppress your guilty feelings,and sear your conscience, and silence the voice of the HolySpirit.  Don’t grieve Him away.  Repent andforsake your known sins, and by doing so save your life.


Now here’s Loophole #7, entitled,“There’s No Condemnation!” 

(Lower)“Haven’t you read Romans 8:1?”  PastorLoophole continues.  But notice how he only preaches halfthe Bible, and ignores the half he doesn’t like. “Thereis therefore now no condemnation to them which are inChrist Jesus.”  So if you’ve ‘acceptedJesus as your Savior, then you should never feel condemnation,even if you continue to enjoy your sins.  You don’thave to submit to Jesus as your Lord.  Just believe heforgives you, and that makes it true.  God won’t speakwords of condemnation to you, even if you continue to enjoy yoursins.”  


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice. First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat there’s no condemnation to them which are inChrist Jesus.  But the lie is that you’re inChrist Jesus, if you’re still enjoying your deadly sins. Here’s the truth to replace that lie:  If you’restill enjoying your sins, you’re not in Christ Jesus! Haven’t you ever read the second half of that verse, Romans8:1? “There is therefore now no condemnation to themwhich are in Christ Jesus, who walknot after the flesh, but after the Spirit.[3]  If you walk after the flesh, anddon’t walk after the Spirit, you’re not in ChristJesus!  The Bible says, No one who live inhim keeps on sinning.[4]  If you keep on sinning, you don’tlive in Him.  If you keep on sinning, you deservenothing but condemnation and more condemnation.  You’reguilty, guilty, guilty, and you’ll perish in hell unless youimmediately repent and forsake your known sins.  You’llnever be saved, unless you immediately surrender to the Lordshipof Jesus Christ.  The Bible says, The man who says,“I know him,” but does not do what he commands is aliar and the truth is not in him....This ishow we know we are in him:  Whoeverclaims to live in him must walk as Jesusdid. [5]  So if youdon’t walk as Jesus did, in actual holiness, thenyou’re not in him.  Whoever claims to live inhim must walk as Jesus did.  And if you’re not inChrist Jesus, you stand condemned, not by me, but by God himself. 

Now some of you outthere listening feel a little bit guilty right now.  I loveyou and I care about you.  But I’m telling the truth. So if I tell you the truth in love, and it makes you feel guilty,what should I do?  Should I tell you lies instead?  ShouldI disguise the truth in subtle innuendo, and make my languagemore flowery, and beat around the bush, and pander to yoursensual desires, and apologize when you get offended?  ShouldI remain silent and let you die in your sins?  No.  Ilove you too much for that.  Here’s the truth: Withoutholiness, no one will see the Lord.[6]

           I can hear Pastor Loophole out there, saying (lower)“he’s just preaching condemnation.”  Butit’s really not possible for me to preach condemnation toyou, unless you really are guilty.  It’s just notpossible.  Let me prove it.  Now if I accused you ofrobbing a bank, but you’ve never actually robbed a bank,would you feel guilty?  No way!  Would you feelcondemned?  No way!  Your conscience would leap to youraid, proclaiming your innocence based on reality.  You’dlaugh out loud, saying “I’ve never robbed a bank! I'm not guilty!  I don’t feel condemnation.” 

Now what if I accused you of being sexualimmoral.  Would you feel condemned then?  Well, ifyou’re not sexually immoral, you wouldn’t feelcondemned.  You’d say, “that’s not me.” But if you have been sexually immoral, and you’ve nevertruly repented, you probably would feel condemned.  Now whatif I accused you of stealing from God because you haven’tpaid your tithes?  Would you feel condemned then?  Well,if you do pay your tithes, you wouldn’t feel anycondemnation.  You wouldn’t feel guilty at all, becauseyou know that you do pay your tithes.  But if you don’tpay your tithes, and you are stealing money from God, youprobably feel condemned right now.  So can you how it’sreally impossible for me to condemn you, unless you really areguilty, and refusing to repent?  Nobody can preachcondemnation to you, unless you really are guilty. 

Now if you’vetruly repented, and changed your heart, and your behaviorreflects that change of heart, then rejoice, because Jesus paidfor your sins on the cross.  The atoning sacrifice of Jesusshed blood on the cross makes you clean and forgiven, as white assnow, no matter what you’ve done in the past.  But ifyou haven’t repented, and you keep on enjoying your sins,then what Jesus did on the cross doesn’t apply to you. You can’t escape those feelings of guilt, condemnation, andshame, because you’re still embracing your sins.  Youstand condemned, not by me, not even by God or the devil, but byyour own guilty conscience.

           There are really only two ways to ease your guilty conscience. One way is to silence your conscience by suppressing it.  Youcan ignore your guilty conscience until it becomes seared as witha hot iron.  But even if you suppress your sins outof your memory, God won’t forget them.  You may closeyour eyes, and even pretend you’re forgiven, but the HolySpirit continues to whisper....“Guilty, Guilty,Guilty.”  But if you repent, and change the desires ofyour heart, and forsake your known sins, God will forgive you, nomatter what you’ve done.  When you confess your sins toGod, the Holy Spirit whispers to your heart, “Forgiven,Forgiven, Clean.  You are my child.”  The HolySpirit testifies with your Spirit that you are a child of God. You stand truly forgiven in Christ, and condemnation can’ttouch you. This is the path to eternal life. 

           Let’s pray together.  Would you stop what you’redoing for a moment, and just pray with me, to God?  Praythese words with me, to God.  “Father in heaven, I amso sorry for delaying repentance, and for continuing to enjoy mydeadly sins.  I repent, right now, and I forsake my knownsins, especially this one that you’re speaking to me about,right now…

Lord, I ask you to forgive me for eventhinking that way.  I change my mind, Lord, and I change thedesires of my heart to loving you, instead of loving my ownselfishness.  And I forgive that person who hurt me.  Ireceive your cleansing forgiveness, which Jesus bought for mewhen he died on the cross.  Lord Jesus, I invite you to comeand rule my heart, forever.  In your name I pray.  Amen.” 

           Did you just pray with me?  If you just prayed with me,would you just say, “Amen.”  Go ahead and say itout loud.  Amen, Lord Jesus.  Now if you prayed withme, can I ask you to write to me and get a copy of this bookyou’re hearing me teach from?  Here’s Mark withthat information. 


Middle segment by Mark McWilliams…

Thanks Gordon.  He’ll be back injust a moment.  But first, do you know somebody who needs tohear today’s message?  If you call our toll-free numberin the next hour, 866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a freecassette tape of today’s broadcast, which you can copy andgive to your friends.  All our tapes are copyable and free,but please remember we need your donations to stay on the air andto give away these free tapes.  So please pray and obey,then send us your best possible donation, after you receive yourfree cassette.  (Gordon:  Hey time out!  Ifit’s your first time calling us, no donation is required! Just call us!)  Our toll free number is 866-Obey-God,that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  And please specifyyou’re requesting today’s program.  Do you believeAmerica needs to hear these messages?  If so, then we needyou to sponsor us, by joining the Persuader’s Club with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club, we’ll also send you an autographedcopy of Gordon’s book that you’ve been hearing.  Justvisit our web-site at  Or call us inthe next hour at 866-Obey-God.  Right now, let’s returnto Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching continued by Gordon JamesKlingenschmitt

Thanks again Mark.  Now Loophole number8 is in our book, and it’s when Pastor Loophole accuses allholiness preachers of being judgmental.  We don’t havetime to cover that one, you’ll have to get our book.  Butsince we’re thinking about it, I just want to remindeverybody listening that I am not your judge.  Only God canbe your judge, and Jesus said, ‘Do not judge, or you toowill be judged.’”[7]  I’m notinterested in judging you and I’m not smart enough to judgeyou.  I don’t have authority over you, and youdon’t answer to me.  I’m not your Lord, I’myour equal, your peer, a member of your generation.  And Iam not your judge.  But I am called to be a messenger, sentfrom the one who will judge you someday soon.  And this isGod’s message to you:  Repent and forsake your sins. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do this and you will live.


Now here’s Pastor Loophole again,with Loophole number 9, entitled “The tyranny of the“should” and “ought…” 

(Lower) “Don’t let the words‘should’ and ‘ought’ ruin your freedom inChrist.  All those do’s and don’ts in the Biblejust distract you from God’s grace [or God’s tolerance]and make your Christian life much less enjoyable!  Whensomebody says you “ought” to do something, or you“shouldn’t” do something, that’s just thedevil trying to make you a slave. Don’t let the words“should” and “ought” take away your freedomin Christ.” 


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice. First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat if you willfully enjoy your sins, the do’s anddon’ts in the Bible will ruin your fun.  But the lie isthat God never says should or ought.  But here’s thetruth to replace that lie: The word “should” is in theNew Testament 155 times.  And every single time it’sused to tell someone to do something they’re not doing. 

           In the book of Luke, the crowd asked, “What shouldwe do then?"  John answered, "The man with twotunics should share with him who has none,and the one who has food should do the same."  [The]tax collectors…asked, "what shouldwe do?"  “Don't collect any more than you arerequired to," he told them.  Then some soldiers askedhim, "And what should we do?" Hereplied, "Don't extort money and don't accuse peoplefalsely— be content with your pay." [8]

And in the book of Mark, the disciples wentout and preached that people should repent.[9]

           And in Luke, Jesus said, I will show you whom youshould fear: Fear him who, after the killing of thebody, has power to throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fearhim.[10]

And when Jesus toldthe parable of the persistent widow, it says he told hisdisciples a parable to show them that they shouldalways pray and not give up.[11]

           And Jesus said, I have set you an example that youshould do as I have done for you.[12]

Should, should,should.  It’s everywhere in the teachings of Christ. I embrace these words, should and ought.  They enhance myfreedom in Christ, because they help set me free from my deadlysins.  So whenever you see the word “should” inthe Bible, circle it.  It’s followed by wisdom fromGod.  Now Pastor Loophole tells us we SHOULD just ignorethese tyrannical words: should, shouldn’t, do, don’t. But Jesus tells us we OUGHT to DO what God requires.  NowJohnny Lukewarm, if you’re out there listening, whom SHOULDyou obey?  The teachings of Pastor Loophole, or theteachings of Jesus and the Bible?


Now here’s Pastor Loophole again,with Loophole #10, entitled, “focus on ‘being’instead of ‘doing.’” 

           (Lower) “Now we don’t want to get into a‘salvation by works mentality,’ The first sign thatyou’re trying to be saved by works is that you feel guiltybecause you’re not doing enough for God.  Youmay even hear a voice telling you to repent of your laziness,slothfulness, and selfish-priorities, but that’s just thedevil trying to tempt you into salvation by works.  Godisn’t concerned with your doing things as much as heis with your being.  After all, we’re human beings,not human doings!  So if you’re convicted byscriptures demanding hard work, self-discipline and sacrifice,just ignore those, and focus on the scriptures which call forrest and relaxation.  If you’re not doing anything forGod, don’t worry.  God is still pleased with you. Christ’s yoke and burden is very, very light.” [13] 


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice. First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat God wants to transform your heart before he transforms youractions.  But the lie is that God isn’t interested inyour outward actions.  It’s a lie that if you’renot doing anything for God, He’s pleased with you,just the way you are.  But here’s the truth to replacethose lies:  The New Testament is full of God’scommands to do things, and not just be. 

Jesus said, Do to others what youwould have them do to you, for this sums up the Law andthe Prophets.[14] 

And Jesus said, “Not everyone who saysto me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven,but only he who does the will of my Father who is inheaven.[15]

And Jesus said, “whoever doesthe will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister andmother.”[16]

And Jesus will say to you on the day ofjudgment: “Whatsoever you do unto these, the least ofmy brothers, you did it unto me.  And whatever youdidn’t do to the least of these, my brothers, youdidn’t do unto me.”[17]

And Jesus asks you, Johnny Lukewarm, ifyou’re out there listening:  “Why do you call me,‘Lord, Lord,’ and do not do what I say?[18]  [The] servant who knows hismaster’s will and...does not do what his master wantswill be beaten with many blows.[19]


Jesus must have been a human doing, not justa human being.  Because he said, “My food is to dothe will of him who sent me and to finish his work.[20]  And he prayed to God, “I havebrought you glory on earth by completing the work you gaveme to do.”[21]

Why did God create you?  For we areGod’s workmanship, created in Christ Jesus to do goodworks.[22] 

And why did Paul write to Timothy,“command them to do good, to be rich in good deeds...”[23]

And why did Paul warn the Colossians, Anyonewho does wrong will be repaid for his wrong.”[24]

And why did James write “[Don’t]merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Dowhat it says.  Anyone who listens to the word but doesnot do what it says is like a man who looks at his face in amirror and, after looking at himself, goes away and immediatelyforgets what he looks like.  But the man who looks intentlyinto the perfect law that gives freedom, and continues to dothis, not forgetting what he has heard, but doing it—he will be blessed in what he does.[25]

And James warned, Show me your faith withoutdeeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do.[26]  You see that a person is justified bywhat he does and not by faith alone.[27] Anyone, then, who knowsthe good he ought to do and doesn’t do it,sins.[28]  And the man whosays, “I know him,” but does not do whathe commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.[29]

And John wrote, you know that everyone who doeswhat is right has been born of [God].[30]

And John wrote, Dear children, do notlet anyone lead you astray. He who does what is right isrighteous, just as he is righteous.  He who does whatis sinful is of the devil, because the devil has been sinningfrom the beginning.[31]

Jesus said in Luke10 that doing was required for salvation.  In fact, doing isthe only way to inherit eternal life.  Jesus said in Luke10, Love God and love your neighbor…Do this and youwill live.” [32]

Now think hard,Johnny.  I read in the Bible that doing is important.  ButPastor Loophole says doing isn’t important, just being. Now who are you going to believe?  This preacher applies ayellow-highlighter to these commands in the Bible to“do” things, but another preacher uses ablack-permanent marker to blot them out!  It’s a shamehow many preachers water down these scriptures, because of theirtheological bias against good deeds. 

Now we all knowsalvation is by faith and not by works,[33] but your deeds provewhether or not your heart has really changed!  This is howwe know who the children of God are and who the children of thedevil are: Anyone who does not do what is right isnot a child of God.[34]  Anyone who doeswhat is good is from God. Anyone who does what is evil hasnot seen God.[35] 

If preaching “doing”is legalism, then Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, James, Paul, andeven Jesus Christ were all preaching legalism.  Butit’s not legalism to preach about doing good deeds. Doingis one of the core messages of the New Testament.  Don’tjust be, repent and turn to God and prove [your]repentance by [your] deeds.[36]


Just something to think about, until ournext broadcast. Now everybody go out there and do what God wantsyou to do.  In the meantime, I hope you’ll write to usand get a copy of this book you’re hearing me teach from. In this book and in our future broadcasts, we’ll answer thequestions you may have about faith versus works or legalism oreternal security, and you’ll hear more theologicaladventures of Johnny Lukewarm and Pastor Loophole.  So Ihope you’ll write us and tune in next time.  Now I loveyou, and I care about you.  So here’s Mark with moreinformation.


Closing trailer by Mark McWilliams… 

Thanks Gordon, and thanks everybody forlistening. Do you know somebody who needs to hear today’smessage?  If you call our toll-free number in the next hour,866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a free cassette tape oftoday’s broadcast, which you can copy and give to yourfriends. All our tapes are copyable and free, but please rememberthat we need your donations to stay on the air and to give awaythese free tapes.  So please pray and obey God about howmuch these teachings are worth to you, and return to us your bestpossible gift after you receive your free cassette.  (Gordon: Hey time out!  If it’s your first time contacting us,no donation is required!  Just call us!)  Our toll freenumber is 866-Obey-God, that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D,and please specify you’re requesting today’s program. Now do you believe America needs to hear these messages?  Ifso, we’re specifically asking you to join thePersuader’s Club, and to sponsor this radio broadcast with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club as a monthly partner, we’ll send youan autographed copy of the book you’ve been hearing, writtenand taught by Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled,“License To Sin, The Number One Reason America Is Losing ItsMoral Foundation.”  Just visit our web-site  That’s It’s the monthly donations of our Persuader’s Clubpartners who keep this program on the air.  Now if you havecomments or questions about today’s broadcast, you can emailus at  “,” Or you canwrite to us.  Or you can always call us toll free, at866-Obey-God.  And if you remember, please tell us the callsign of the radio station you’re listening to.  May Godbless you, and thank you for supporting Persuade The WorldMinistries.  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, wepersuade men. 


<Manymore transcripts and free MP3 radio shows CLICK HERE>

[1] John 16:8 (NIV)

[2] 1 Tim 4:1-2 (NIV)

[3] Romans 8:1 (KJV)

[4] 1 John 3:6 (NIV)

[5] 1 John 2:4-6 (NIV)

[6] See Hebrews 12:14

[7] Matt 7:1 (NIV)

[8] Luke 3:10-14 (NIV)

[9] Mark 6:12 (NIV)

[10] Luke 12:5 (NIV)

[11] Luke 18:1 (NIV)

[12] John 13:15 (NIV)

[13] See Matthew 11:30

[14] Matthew 7:12 (NIV)

[15] Matthew 7:21 (NIV)

[16] Matthew 12:50 (NIV)

[17] Matthew 25:40 (NIV)

[18] Luke 6:46-47 (NIV)

[19] Luke 12:47 (NIV)

[20] John 4:34 (NIV)

[21] John 17:4 (NIV)

[22] Ephesians 2:10 (NIV)

[23] 1 Timothy 6:18 (NIV)

[24] Colossians 3:25 (NIV)

[25] James 1:22-25 (NIV)

[26] James 2:18 (NIV)

[27] James 2:24 (NIV)

[28] James 4:17 (NIV)

[29] 1 John 2:4 (NIV)

[30] 1 John 2:29 (NIV)

[31] 1 John 3:7-8 (NIV)

[32] Luke 10:28 (NIV)

[33] See Romans 9:32

[34] 1 John 3:10 (NIV)

[35] 3 John 1:11 (NIV)

[36] Acts 26:20 (NIV)