Program#L12—“The Theological Adventures of Johnny Lukewarm andPastor Loophole:  More Grace Loopholes (Cont’d)”


Radio Show Transcript, © 2001, Persuade TheWorld Ministries, Gordon James Klingenschmitt, Servant.  Copyingand distribution (without editing) is highly encouraged. 


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Opening introduction by MarkMcWilliams…

Welcome and thank you for joining this radiobroadcast of Persuade The World Ministries.  You’reabout to hear our radio production of the book written and taughtby Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled “License To Sin,The Number One Reason America Is Losing Its MoralFoundation.”  If you call us in the next hour,we’ll mail you a free cassette tape of today’sbroadcast, which you can copy and give to your friends.  Justcall our toll-free phone number:  866-Obey-God.  That’stoll free, 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  Gordon James Klingenschmittis a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, and aseminary graduate of Regent University, holding both M.B.A. andMaster of Divinity degrees.  He’s also the founder andservant of Persuade The World Ministries, a 501(c3) tax-exemptreligious non-profit corporation in Colorado Springs, dedicatedto persuading individuals in America and throughout the world toforsake their sins and submit their hearts and minds to theloving rulership of our Lord, Jesus Christ.  And now withtoday’s teaching, here is Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching by Gordon James Klingenschmitt

Thanks Mark.  Today we continue ourmini-drama entitled “The Theological Adventures of JohnnyLukewarm and Pastor Loophole.”  You remember ourcharacters: Johnny Lukewarm is a non-Christian who calls himselfa Christian.  He wants to go to heaven when he dies, butdoesn’t want to obey Jesus as the Lord of his life.  Sohe gets his advice from Pastor Loophole, who tells him everythinghis itching ears want to hear.

           (Higher) “Pastor Loophole,” says Johnny, “I’mvery upset about this particular passage of scripture.  Itseems as though God is commanding me to do something I reallydon’t want to do.  Do I really have to repent, and stopsinning, and obey God?  Or is there some other alternative? 

           (Lower) “Why, certainly there is, Johnny Lukewarm, you justrelax.  I can offer you dozens of alternatives, and give youvery logical reasons why you don’t have to obey God.” 

           (Higher) “Oh, thank goodness.  For a minute there, Ithought I’d actually have to change my behavior and obeyGod!”  Johnny breathes a big sigh of relief.  Hesits forward eagerly, with his itching ears searching for someway of escape from the Holy Spirit’s conviction.  Butthe Spirit of God is grieved away, and He slowly withdraws hisconviction from Johnny’s life. 


(Start) Nowlet’s continue with Loophole #11, entitled “Perfectlove drives out fear.”  So here’s Pastor Loopholeagain. 

           (Lower) “You don’t have to fear God.  In fact, theBible says, “perfect love drives out fear.”[1] So if you’re afraid of God, it’sonly because you don’t understand God’s perfect lovetoward you.  If you just realized how much God loves you,you’d realize that God will never punish you, even while youcontinue to enjoy your sins.  And “God hath notgiven us the spirit of fear…” [2] So anyone who tells you to fear God,doesn’t understand the gospel.  Fear does not come fromGod.” 


TIMEOUT !!  Let’s look at the scriptures everybody, andanalyze Pastor Loophole’s advice.  Let’s rightlydivide the word of truth, and separate the truth from the lies inthe advice given by Pastor Loophole.  First, I want toacknowledge the true part.  It’s true that Perfectlove drives out fear. But the lie is that “perfectlove” refers to God’s love toward you.  Lookthis up for yourself in 1st John 4.  When John says“perfect love drives out fear,” he’s notdescribing how much God loves you, so you don’t have to fearGod, because God loves you now, even while you continue to enjoyyour sins.  In fact, he’s saying the opposite.  He’stalking about the perfect love you’re supposed to havetoward God!  He’s saying that if you love Godperfectly, then God won’t punish you, because you’rewalking in perfect holiness.  You can prove this, just byreading the preceding verses.  It says, Whoever livesin love lives in God, and God in him.  In thisway, love is made complete among us so thatwe will have confidence on the day of judgment, [why?] becausein this world we are like him.[3]  You know, ifyou’re like Jesus in this world, and you love God perfectly,you’ll have confidence on the day of judgment, because Godwon’t be able to find any sin in your heart to punish. But if you don’t live your life like Jesus did, and youdon’t love God perfectly with all your heart, and love isnot made complete in your heart, be afraid.  If you’reunholy, and your heart is full of sin and selfishness, fearGod’s coming wrath.  But if you’re holy, and youlove God perfectly, you’ll have nothing to fear on the dayof judgment. That’s how perfect love casts out fear.  Ifyou love God perfectly, you have nothing to fear.  Nowperfect selfishness attracts the wrath of God, but there is nofear in [perfect] love… Perfect love drivesout fear, because fear has to do with punishment.  Ifyou love God with all your heart, you won’t be punished! But if you don’t love God, your guilty conscience will knowdeep down inside that God’s wrath is coming, so you’llfear God’s coming judgment.  The one who fears isnot made perfect in love. [4]  So walk in perfectlove!  Love God perfectly!  And you’ll havenothing to fear.  That’s what 1st John 4means.  Read it for yourself. 

Now it’s truethat God has not given us a spirit of fear.  Jesustold us not to fear other men.  But then Jesus said, “Iwill show you whom you should fear: Fear him who…has powerto throw you into hell. Yes, I tell you, fearhim.”  Johnny Lukewarm, if you continue to enjoyyour sins, fear God.  His wrath will destroy you in hellunless you repent.  The fear of the LORD is the beginningof wisdom.[5]  So,continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling! [6]


Now let’s continue with loopholenumber 12, entitled, “You Can’t Earn Salvation,It’s a Free Gift…”  Here’s PastorLoophole again. 

(Lower) “NowJohnny, eternal salvation is a free gift from God, not apayment for something you’ve earned.  You can’tearn your way into heaven by being holy, so God must not requirerepentance or holiness for you to be saved, because He gives itas a free gift.  The Bible says, when a man works, hiswages are not credited to him as a gift, but as an obligation.[7]  Now is Godobligated to pay you with eternal life, just because you’veearned it by being holy?  No Johnny, holiness is completelyoptional when it comes to salvation.  Salvation is a freegift given to unholy people.  So you don’t have torepent, or be holy, Johnny, and you can still go to heaven. God forgives you, even while you continue to enjoy your sins.  


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice.  First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat holiness doesn’t help you earn salvation.  Andit’s true that salvation is a free gift, given by God, evenwhen you don’t deserve it.  But it’s a lie thatholiness is optional, and repentance is optional, and you can goto heaven without holiness.  It’s a lie that withoutholiness, everyone can see the Lord.  But here’s thetruth to replace those lies: Without holiness, no one will seethe Lord.  Jesus said,“unless you repent, youtoo will all perish.” 

           Holiness isn’t optional for salvation, just like genuinefaith isn’t optional for salvation. 

If you don’t change your heart, andsubmit to the Lordship of Jesus Christ, and love God with allyour heart, you will not go to heaven.

Now it’s truethat holiness won’t help you earn salvation.  Andyou can’t buy eternal life, and pay for it withholiness credits.  God isn’t obligated to forgive you. God gives His mercy as a free gift, even if we don’t deserveit.  But even if holiness doesn’t help you deservesalvation, it’s still required.  Just like faithdoesn’t merit your salvation for you, but it’sstill required.  Now Martin Luther once said, “There isno such thing as merit; but all who are justified are justifiedgratis,”[8] or “for nothing, free of charge, on thehouse.”  But then Martin Luther also believed faith isrequired for salvation.  Now faith doesn’t earnsalvation for you, but it’s still required.  Andholiness won’t earn salvation for you, but it’sstill required.  Don’t let Pastor Loophole tell youthat repentance and holiness are optional, and you can be savedwithout being holy.  No, the Bible says, Withoutholiness, no one will see the Lord. 

Just imagine if thegovernor of Texas had the power to grant full clemency, or atotal pardon, or absolute mercy to a death row inmate who’sabout to be executed.  Now just imagine if the guilty man,on his way to be executed, appeared before the governor of Texas,and got down on his knees, and said, “I’m so sorry,I’ll never do it again, please forgive me.  Pleasedon’t sentence me to death.  My heart has changed. I promise I’ll never do it again.  Please grant me apardon and set me free.”  Now you might question hissincerity, but even if he really sincerely repented, and he wasreally, really sorry, does that mean he suddenly deservesto be forgiven?  Did his repentance earn him the rightto be forgiven?  No way!  Now is the governor of Texassuddenly obligated to grant him a pardon, and commute hissentence?  No way!  If the governor decides to grant apardon at this point, it would only be out of the goodness of hisheart, as a freely given gift, not because the man deservesforgiveness. 

           Now picture a different scenario.  Imagine if a death-rowinmate, on his way to be executed, appeared before the Governorof Texas, and said, “I’m not sorry at all.  Infact, I enjoyed committing that crime, and if you set me free,I’d probably do it again.”  Do you think theGovernor of Texas would pardon him then?  Can you imaginethe governor saying, “Well, he’s not sorry, and hisheart isn’t changed, but I’m going to forgive himanyway.  I’m going to commute his death sentence, andset him free.  Take off those handcuffs, and let him gofree.”  No way!  Even the most liberal governor inAmerica wouldn’t pardon a prisoner like that, while theprisoner’s heart is unchanged and unrepentant, while hecontinues to enjoy what he did.

But now, why is it so easy for you to imagine that Godpardons you, even while your heart remains unchanged?  Howis it you believe God forgives your sins, even while youstill enjoy those sins, and think fondly of them, and you stilldesire to sin, again and again?  How can you imagine thatholiness is optional, and God forgives you unconditionally, evenwhile your heart is planning to go out and enjoy your sins againtonight?  No, if that’s you, God does not forgive you. Your sins are not forgiven.  If you haven’t repentedand changed your heart, your death sentence remains on you. If you don’t forsake your known sins, and hate your sins,you don’t have one ounce of hope for gaining eternal life. Without holiness, no one will see the Lord.  If youdon’t repent so deeply that you hate your sins, God willnever grant you a pardon.  If you don’t love God withall your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself, God willsentence you to eternal death.  But if you can hear myvoice, it’s not too late.  If you’re guilty, andyou’re on your way to be executed in hell, throw yourselfdown before your governor, and get on your knees before Him, andplead with Him for mercy, saying “God, I’m so sorry. I’ll never do it again.  Please, I really mean it. My heart is really changed.  I’ll never, ever, committhat sin, ever again.  Please, God.  Please, I beg you. Have mercy on me.  Grant me a pardon.” 

           God won’t be obligated to pardon you.  He may forgiveyou if He desires, but even then it’s only out of thegoodness of His heart.  He’d pardon you as a free gift,not because you deserve to be forgiven.  But then again, ifyour heart isn’t really changed, and you’re thinking,“I’m not that sorry at all.  I enjoyed those sins,and I’d like to enjoy them again,” then God won’teven think about granting you a pardon.  If you continue toenjoy your sins, God will never forgive you. 

           Let’s stop for a moment, and pray.  Would you take amoment to pray with me?  Pray these words along with me, toGod.  Go ahead and say them out loud.  “Father inheaven.  I plead with you, to have mercy on me, a sinner. God, I’m so sorry for my sins.  I hate my sins.  Pleaseforgive me.  Right now, I change my heart.  Idon’t want to do those sins anymore.  I really mean it. I’ll never do it again, especially that one sin thatyou’re convicting me of, right now.  God, pleaseforgive me, and come and change my heart right now.  God,come and rule my heart forever.  I choose to love you, andhate my sins.  In Jesus name I pray, Amen.” 

           Did you just pray with me?  If you just prayed with me,would you just raise your hand?  Wherever you are, ifyou’re in your house, or in your car, or in front of otherpeople, it’s OK.  Just raise your right hand up to God,as a sign that you just prayed with me and gave your heart backto God.  God sees your heart.  Did you mean what youjust prayed?  I know you did.  Now if you just prayedwith me, I’d like to ask you to write to me and get a copyof this book you’re hearing me teach from.  Here’sMark with that information. 


Middle segment by Mark McWilliams…

Thanks Gordon.  He’ll be back injust a moment.  But first, do you know somebody who needs tohear today’s message?  If you call our toll-free numberin the next hour, 866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a freecassette tape of today’s broadcast, which you can copy andgive to your friends.  All our tapes are copyable and free,but please remember we need your donations to stay on the air andto give away these free tapes.  So please pray and obey,then send us your best possible donation, after you receive yourfree cassette.  (Gordon:  Hey time out!  Ifit’s your first time calling us, no donation is required! Just call us!)  Our toll free number is 866-Obey-God,that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  And please specifyyou’re requesting today’s program.  Do you believeAmerica needs to hear these messages?  If so, then we needyou to sponsor us, by joining the Persuader’s Club with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club, we’ll also send you an autographedcopy of Gordon’s book that you’ve been hearing.  Justvisit our web-site at  Or call us inthe next hour at 866-Obey-God.  Right now, let’s returnto Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching continued by Gordon JamesKlingenschmitt

Thanks again, Mark.  Now let’scontinue with Loophole #13, entitled, “Gospel means‘good news’, not ‘bad news’”  Sohere’s Pastor Loophole again. 

(Lower)“Johnny, the word ‘gospel’ means ‘goodnews,’ not bad news.  And if we have to be holy inorder to be saved, that’s not good news—that’s badnews.  So anyone who preaches that holiness is required forsalvation is not preaching the gospel.  The good news meansGod forgives you even while you continue to enjoy your sins. Isn’t that great news?  But if anyone thinks you haveto be holy to be saved, they just don’t understand thegospel.” 


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice.First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat the word ‘Gospel’ means ‘good news.’ But it’s a lie that holiness is ‘bad news.’  Here’sthe good news: Jesus can set you free from your deadly sins! This is the greatest news ever spoken in the universe!  WhenPastor Loophole thinks that sanctification is bad news, andgetting set free from your deadly sins is bad news, that justproves how much he loves his sins!  He hates the idea ofgetting rid of his sins.  He feels sad when he thinks ofletting go of his sins.  But not true believers.  TrueChristians rejoice when God sets them free from their deadlysins.  True Christians hate their sins, and they’reglad to see them go.  They celebrate when God sets them freefrom that bondage to sin!  Jesus said, The Spirit of theLord is on me, because he has anointed me to preach goodnews to the poor. He has sent me to proclaim freedomfor the prisoners…to release the oppressed[9] Thank God, I’ve been freed from my prisonand oppression.  Holiness isn’t bad news, it’s thegreatest news of all time!  Holiness and the gospel are oneand the same message! 


Now here’s Loophole #14, entitled,“past, present, and future.”

           (Lower) “Oh, the mercy of God!”  Pastor Loopholecontinues, “Jesus shed his blood on the cross for us, oncefor all eternity.  He paid for all the sins of all time,past, present, and future.  So if your past, present, andfuture sins are covered by his atoning sacrifice, then don’tworry about the sins you committed in the past, they’recovered, even if you don’t repent for them.  Anddon’t worry about your present sins, they’re coveredtoo, even if you’re enjoying them right now!  And evenif you sin for the rest of your life until you die, Jesus paidfor all your future sins too.  You don’t need torepent, or persevere in holiness until the end, no, Jesus paidfor your all your sins, past, present, and future, even while youcontinue to enjoy them.” 


TIME OUT !!  Let’s look at thescriptures everybody, and analyze Pastor Loophole’s advice. First, I want to acknowledge the true part.  It’s truethat when Jesus died on the cross, at that one moment in history,he paid for the sins of all time, past, present and future. But it’s a lie that His sacrifice on the cross covers thosepast sins that you haven’t yet repented of.  Andit’s a lie that Jesus paid for those present sins youcontinue to embrace.  And it’s a lie that he paid forall those future sins you’re scheming and planning to enjoy! The truth is that God does not forgive those sins which youcontinue to enjoy.  If you don’t repent, and forsakeyour known sins, and hate them, the sacrifice Jesus made on thecross doesn’t apply to you. 

You know, everybody’s quick topoint to the cross, but God would rather have your obedience. What’s better, for you to sin aggressively and point to thecross, or for you to obey God and not have sins which needforgiving in the first place?  Does the LORD delight inburnt offerings and sacrifices as much as in obeying the voice ofthe LORD? To obey is better than sacrifice,and to heed is better than the fat of rams.[10]  God doesn’t want you to keep onsinning and pointing to the cross, and sinning and pointing tothe cross.  God would rather you just obey him, and not sinin the first place, and not need so much atonement, and not needso much forgiveness!  God would rather you live a life oflove and compassion, instead of being selfish and pointing toChrist’s sacrifice.  I desirecompassion, and not a sacrifice,[11] says the Lord. “Go and learn what this means.  I desire compassion,and not a sacrifice.”

No, if you continueto enjoy your sins, then the blood Jesus shed on the cross doesnot apply to you.  The Bible says in Hebrews 10, “Ifwe deliberately keep on sinning after we have received theknowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only afearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that willconsume the enemies of God.”[12]  Read that for yourself in Hebrews 10. There is no sacrifice left for those who deliberately keep onsinning. When you continue to enjoy your sins, it’s liketrampling the blood Jesus shed on the cross under your feet. Howmuch more severely do you think a man deserves to be punished whohas trampled the Son of God under foot, who has treated as anunholy thing the blood of the covenant that sanctified him.[13] The cross does not apply to those sins you continue to embrace. It didn’t apply to them in the past, it doesn’t applyto them today; it will not apply to them tomorrow.  Yourpast sins are only covered if you confess them to God andrenounce them.[14]  Your present sinsare only covered if you immediately forsake them!  And yourfuture sins are most easily covered, if you determine in yourheart, right now, that you’ll never commit them in the firstplace! 

           Just imagine if this one single loophole was removed fromAmerican theology.  Imagine if every Christian in Americasuddenly realized, that Jesus didn’t pay for those sins wecontinue to enjoy.  Imagine if everybody suddenly realizedthat God’s doesn’t forgive people who continue to lovetheir sins.  What a holy fear of God would sweep throughtheir hearts.  What sudden agitation and anguish they’dfeel.  How they’d fret and perspire and pace back andforth nervously, as they fully realized, “My sins, my sins,they’ll destroy me!”  What holy terror would filltheir hearts, as they imagine their very real, and soon comingfate—eternal torment in the fires of hell.  Howthey’d search and search for an escape from that torment,but alas there would be none.  Except, of course,repentance.  

           “Ah, there it is!” their face would brighten.  “Myescape from the clutches of hell!  I must immediately changemy behavior.  I must thoroughly examine my heart, and changemy every desire, to love God instead of selfishness.  I mustinventory my life with a fine-toothed comb, confessing each andevery sin to God, leaving no stone unturned.  I must purgemy heart of every ounce of rebellion to God’s rulership. And I must remain faithful until the day I die, or I’llsurely perish!”  What a revival of holiness would sweepacross this nation.  What an irresistible wave of obediencewould crash from shore to shore.  Can you see thethundering, pounding footsteps of God’s authority takinghold in the hearts of men, the kingdom of God forcefully andviolently marching into the hearts of every man, woman, and childin our nation?  All the blinders would immediately fall fromour eyes.  People everywhere would have no option but toradically choose holiness.  Suddenly the Church would lookvery different from the rest of the world.  Can you evenimagine it?  I can.  It’s coming.  There’sa holiness revolution coming to the Church in America, but notuntil we purge all the loopholes out of our theology, and weforsake this silly notion that God forgives our sins, even whilewe continue to enjoy them.  This is the message that canbring revival to our land: God does not forgive those sins whichyou continue to enjoy.  Say that out loud with me:  Goddoes not forgive those sins which I continue to enjoy. 

           Will you help us preach that message?  I pray you’llwrite to us and get a copy of this book you’re hearing meteach from.  You can even use our book to lead small groups,since we have discussion questions at the end of every chapter. Or get this tape and copy it give it to your friends.  Inour book and in our future broadcasts, we’ll answer thequestions you may have about faith versus works or eternalsecurity, and you’ll hear more theological adventures ofJohnny Lukewarm and Pastor Loophole.  So I hope you’llwrite us and tune in again next time.  Now I love you, and Icare about you.  So here’s Mark with more information.


Closing trailer by Mark McWilliams… 

Thanks Gordon, and thanks everybody forlistening. Do you know somebody who needs to hear today’smessage?  If you call our toll-free number in the next hour,866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a free cassette tape oftoday’s broadcast, which you can copy and give to yourfriends. All our tapes are copyable and free, but please rememberthat we need your donations to stay on the air and to give awaythese free tapes.  So please pray and obey God about howmuch these teachings are worth to you, and return to us your bestpossible gift after you receive your free cassette.  (Gordon: Hey time out!  If it’s your first time contacting us,no donation is required!  Just call us!)  Our toll freenumber is 866-Obey-God, that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D,and please specify you’re requesting today’s program. Now do you believe America needs to hear these messages?  Ifso, we’re specifically asking you to join thePersuader’s Club, and to sponsor this radio broadcast with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club as a monthly partner, we’ll send youan autographed copy of the book you’ve been hearing, writtenand taught by Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled,“License To Sin, The Number One Reason America Is Losing ItsMoral Foundation.”  Just visit our web-site  That’s It’s the monthly donations of our Persuader’s Clubpartners who keep this program on the air.  Now if you havecomments or questions about today’s broadcast, you can emailus at  “,” Or you canwrite to us.  Or you can always call us toll free, at866-Obey-God.  And if you remember, please tell us the callsign of the radio station you’re listening to.  May Godbless you, and thank you for supporting Persuade The WorldMinistries.  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, wepersuade men. 


<Manymore transcripts and free MP3 radio shows CLICK HERE>

[1] 1 John 4:18 (NIV)

[2] 2 Tim 1:7 (KJV)  Note Paul isencouraging Timothy to have more confidence in ministry, notencouraging Timothy to reject the fear of God. 

[3] 1 John 4:16-17 (NIV)

[4] 1 John 4:18 (NIV)

[5] Proverbs 9:10 (NIV)

[6] Phil 2:12 (NIV)

[7] Romans 4:4 (NIV)

[8] R.C. Sproul, Faith Alone, (BakerBooks, Grand Rapids, MI, 1995)

p. 151.  

[9] Luke 4:18-19 (NIV)

[10] 1 Sam 15:22 (NIV)

[11] Matt 12:7 (NAS)

[12] Hebrews 10:27-28 (NIV)

[13] Hebrews 10:29-31 (NIV)

[14] See 1 John 1:9