Program#L15—“The Theological Adventures of Johnny Lukewarm andPastor Loophole:  Inability (Cont’d)”


Radio Show Transcript, © 2001, Persuade TheWorld Ministries, Gordon James Klingenschmitt, Servant.  Copyingand distribution (without editing) is highly encouraged. 


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Opening introduction by MarkMcWilliams…

Welcome and thank you for joining this radiobroadcast of Persuade The World Ministries.  You’reabout to hear our radio production of the book written and taughtby Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled “License To Sin,The Number One Reason America Is Losing Its MoralFoundation.”  If you call us in the next hour,we’ll mail you a free cassette tape of today’sbroadcast, which you can copy and give to your friends.  Justcall our toll-free phone number:  866-Obey-God.  That’stoll free, 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  Gordon James Klingenschmittis a graduate of the United States Air Force Academy, and aseminary graduate of Regent University, holding both M.B.A. andMaster of Divinity degrees.  He’s also the founder andservant of Persuade The World Ministries, a 501(c3) tax-exemptreligious non-profit corporation in Colorado Springs, dedicatedto persuading individuals in America and throughout the world toforsake their sins and submit their hearts and minds to theloving rulership of our Lord, Jesus Christ.  And now withtoday’s teaching, here is Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching by Gordon James Klingenschmitt

ThanksMark.  Today we continue our mini-drama entitled “TheTheological Adventures of Johnny Lukewarm and PastorLoophole.”  You may remember our characters, JohnnyLukewarm, and Pastor Loophole from our last broadcast.  Butbefore we re-introduce these two characters, let’s readagain from 2nd Timothy chapter 3.  “Forthe time will come when men will not put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to suit their own desires, they will gather around thema great number of teachers to say what their itchingears want to hear.  They will turn their earsaway from the truth and turn aside to myths.”  Peopleoften turn to counselors who tell them what their itching earswant to hear.  As is the case with our character, JohnnyLukewarm, who comes into Pastor Loophole’s office to getadvice…

           (Lower) “Please have a seat, Johnny.  What seems to bebothering you today?” 

           Johnny’s brow furrows with concern.  (Higher)“Pastor Loophole, I’m very upset about this particularpassage of scripture.  It seems as though God is commandingme to do something I really don’t want to do.  Do Ireally have to repent, and stop sinning, and obey God?  Oris there some other alternative? 

           (Lower) “Why, certainly there is, Johnny, you just relax. I can offer you dozens of alternatives, and give you very logicalreasons why you don’t have to obey God.” 

           (Higher) “Oh, thank goodness.  For a minute there, Ithought I’d actually have to change my behavior and obeyGod!”  Johnny breathes a sigh of relief.  He sitsforward eagerly, with his itching ears searching for some way ofescape from the Holy Spirit’s conviction.  But theSpirit of God is grieved away, and He slowly withdraws hisconviction from Johnny’s life. 


(Start) Nowlet’s continue with Loophole #23, entitled “You’llnever get rid of your flesh.”  So here’s PastorLoophole again. 

(Lower)“Johnny, holiness is just not possible in this lifetime,because your physical body, your flesh, is inherently sinful. Your flesh is full of hormones and wicked desires which you cannever control, so it’s not possible to be totally free fromsin until you die, and you leave your flesh behind, and you canfinally be holy up in heaven.  But not during this lifetime. And if holiness isn’t possible in this lifetime, it must beoptional.  You can go to heaven even if you’re notholy.” 


TIME OUT !!  Let’slook at the scriptures everybody, and analyze PastorLoophole’s advice.  Let’s rightly divide the wordof truth, and separate the truth from the lies in the advicegiven by Pastor Loophole.  First, I want to acknowledge thetrue part.  It’s true that your physical body, or yourflesh, will be tempted in this lifetime, but that doesn’tmean you have to sin.  If your stomach is hungry,you’ll be tempted toward gluttony, but you don’t haveto give in.  If your hormones are raging, they will temptyou toward sexual immorality, but you don’t have to give into that.  You can learn self-control, and master the desiresof your flesh in this lifetime.  It really is possible tolive a holy life--not after you die--right now!  You know,the only visible difference between a Christian and anon-Christian is mastery of the flesh? 

Christians aretempted by their flesh, just like non-Christians are.  ButChristians are not ruled by their flesh.  Even Jesus wastempted by his fleshly desires, but He didn’t give in. And you don’t have to either.  And the Apostle Paul wastempted by his sinful nature, and he described that wrestlingwith his flesh in Romans 7.  But then in Romans 8, he gotset free by the empowering Spirit of God.  Paul wrote thatwe could be controlled not by the sinful nature [the flesh[1]] but by the Spirit, ifthe Spirit of God lives in you.[2] That’s the secret of mastering your flesh.  Just invitethe Spirit of God to come and rule your heart. God isfaithful; he will not let you be tempted beyond what you canbear. But when you are tempted, he will also provide a way out sothat you can stand up under it. [3]

Don’t believethat holiness is impossible in this lifetime.  It’s notonly possible, it’s mandatory, or you won’t make it toheaven.  The Bible says, With God, all things arepossible, and it also says, without holiness, no one willsee the Lord.  If the Spirit of God lives in you, youcan live a life of self-control, and master your flesh, becausegreater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world. [4]

OK, not let’sswitch gears again, and hear Loophole #24. 

           (Lower) “You’re only human, Johnny,” says PastorLoophole, “everybody makes mistakes.  Nobody’sperfect.  We’re all human, so you can’t be holy100% of the time.  Even Michael Jordan—the bestbasketball player in the world—couldn’t hit all of hisfree-throws. So if holiness isn’t possible all the time,then it must not be required.  You can go to heaven withoutliving a holy life, because after all, you’re onlyhuman.” 


TIME OUT!!  Let’s look at the scriptures everybody.  FirstI want to acknowledge, nobody’s perfect when it comes toknowledge or judgment or ability to reason or mental or physicalability.  We’re all imperfect human beings in theseareas.  But the lie is that no human being can be morallyperfect in this lifetime, and everybody make mistakes morally. That’s a lie!  Sins aren’t mistakes.  Sinsaren’t accidents.  When you sin, you do itintentionally, not by accident!  The Bible says, Anyone,then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn’t do it,sins.[5]  So just becauseyou’re not a super-genius or a super-athlete doesn’tmean you can’t be perfect in your character.  You canbe and you must be.  The Bible says, Anyone who claims tolive in [Christ] must walk as Jesus did. 

           Now in our last broadcast we proved three different ways thatperfect holiness is possible in this lifetime.  If youmissed it, write us and request cassette number L14.  Butfor this teaching, let me clarify that moral perfection isdifferent than physical or mental perfection.  For example,the Bible teaches that Jesus was tempted in every way, just aswe are—yet was without sin.[6]  Jesus was morally perfect.  Butthat doesn’t mean he was perfect in knowledge, because headmitted he didn’t know the time of his return.  Andthat doesn’t mean he was perfect physically—it’spossible that Jesus tripped on rocks and spilled some milk, andhe probably missed a few free-throws on the basketball court. But these are accidents; they’re not sins.  Jesuswasn’t perfect physically or mentally, he was perfectmorally.  When Jesus played basketball, he committed zerointentional fouls.  So it’s OK if you’re notperfect mentally or physically, but you must be perfect morally,just like Jesus was. The Bible says, Anyone who claims to livein [Christ] must walk as Jesus did.

Now when yousin, don’t say, “Well I’m only human.”  That’sno excuse.  Your humanity doesn’t excuse you, it justproves how guilty you are.  You’re not an animalwithout conscience or soul.  You are not a wild beast whofeels no conviction or remorse or knows no right or wrong.  Goddidn’t create you to be a slave to your lusts and sensualurges, like pigs or dogs.  You are a human being,you’re created in the image of God, and you have a freewill, and a conscience that knows right and wrong, and you havecomplete moral faculties.  And since you’re a freemoral agent, and not an animal, you’re completelyresponsible to choose what is right.  After all, you’reonly human. 


Nowhere’s Pastor Loophole again, with Loophole #25.  

           (Lower) “Oh, I suppose holiness might be theoreticallypossible,” says Pastor Loophole, “but nobody’sever achieved it except Jesus.  The Bible says ‘allhave sinned, and fall short of the glory of God.’ [7] and ‘if we saythat we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is notin us.’ [8]  So anybody whoclaims to be holy is a liar, Johnny.  And if nobody butJesus was actually holy in this lifetime, then you can’t beholy either.  Do you really think you can equal the holinessof the second person of the Trinity?  Nobody’s everachieved that level of holiness, so if it’s not possible,then it must not be required.  You don’t have to beholy, and you can still go to heaven.  Jesus forgives yoursins, even while you continue to enjoy them.” 


TIMEOUT!  Let’s go back to the scriptures everybody.  Let’srightly divide the word of truth.  First, I want toacknowledge the true part.  It’s true that everybody inhistory has sinned at some point in their life, except Jesus. We all fallen short, and we all need a Savior, and Jesus was theonly man to live a sinless life over His entire lifetime.  Butthe lie is that after you become a Christian, and after youconfess and forsake your known sins, that you still can’tlive the rest of your life in actual holiness, just like Jesusdid.  That’s a lie!  You can walk in consistentholiness, and the Bible is full of people whose behavior wasblameless, just like Jesus, after they got saved.  In fact,the Bible says in 1st John, no one who has beenborn of God will continue to sin…He cannot go on sinning,because he has been born of God.

           Did you know the Bible lists dozens of people, who livedblameless and sinless lives, living in consistent actual holinessfor extended periods of time, just like Jesus did.  And ifthey lived consistently holy lives, then we can too.  


Forexample, Adam and Eve lived morally perfect lives.

           (Lower) “Adam and Eve were not holy,” says PastorLoophole.  “They sinned when they ate the fruit offthat tree!”  Yes, they did.  But how many days,months, or years did they walk in the garden with God, beforethey fell, living in actual, perfect holiness?  Before theysinned, didn’t they walk in perfect holiness, just likeJesus, for some definite period of time?


Here’sanother example—Did you know King David only sinned once inhis entire lifetime?  The Bible says in 1st Kings15, that King David did what “was right in the eyes ofthe LORD and had not failed to keep any of the LORD'scommands all the days of his life--except in the caseof Uriah the Hittite.”[9] Now if David lived in sinless perfection, for many years beforethat one sin, and many years again after he repented of that onesin, then it must be possible for us to do that too. 


TheApostle James lived a holy life. 

Do you thinkJames was a hypocrite, or did he practice what he preached? He said: “Show me your faith without deeds, and I willshow you my faith by what I do.” [10]  James practicedwhat he preached.  He lived a holy life in faith and indeeds.


TheApostle Paul lived a holy life. 

(Lower)“Paul wasn’t holy,” says Pastor Loophole.  “Paulwrote in Romans 7, ‘what I want to do I do not do, butwhat I hate I do.’”  [11]  Ah, yes.  Butthen he got saved.  In Romans 8, Paul rejoices becausehe’s free from sin:  “Through Christ Jesus thelaw of the Spirit of life set me free from the law of sinand death…”

And then hewrote, “My conscience is clear.” [12] And he said, “Our consciencetestifies that we have conducted ourselves in the world…inthe holiness and sincerity that are from God…” [13]  And he said tothe Thessalonians, “You are witnesses, and so is God, ofhow holy, righteous and blameless we were among you whobelieved.”[14]  Holy, righteous,and blameless.  Sounds like Jesus, doesn’t it?  Actually,it was Paul. 


(Lower)"But Paul wasn’t perfect," says Pastor Loophole. "He had a ‘thorn in the flesh,’ or a messenger ofSatan who tempted him to fall into sin."  Ah, yes, butwhat was God’s promise to Paul?   God said,"My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is madeperfect in weakness."  You know, when you’re weakand being tempted to sin, God’s influential, strengtheninggrace can empower you to live a holy life.  The Bible saysJesus is able to keep you from falling and to present youbefore his glorious presence without fault.   Don’ttell Him His grace isn’t strong enough to save you.  Itwas strong enough to save Paul, because Paul wrote, “InChrist we.....have been made holy, and have been set free fromsin....” [15]


NowI’ll be back in a minute, with more examples of holy,blameless people, other than Jesus.  But now let’s takea short break. 


Middle segment by Mark McWilliams…

Thanks Gordon.  He’ll be back injust a moment.  But first, do you know somebody who needs tohear today’s message?  If you call our toll-free numberin the next hour, 866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a freecassette tape of today’s broadcast, which you can copy andgive to your friends.  All our tapes are copyable and free,but please remember we need your donations to stay on the air andto give away these free tapes.  So please pray and obey,then send us your best possible donation, after you receive yourfree cassette.  (Gordon:  Hey time out!  Ifit’s your first time calling us, no donation is required! Just call us!)  Our toll free number is 866-Obey-God,that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D.  And please specifyyou’re requesting today’s program.  Do you believeAmerica needs to hear these messages?  If so, then we needyou to sponsor us, by joining the Persuader’s Club with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club, we’ll also send you an autographedcopy of Gordon’s book that you’ve been hearing.  Justvisit our web-site at  Or call us inthe next hour at 866-Obey-God.  Right now, let’s returnto Gordon James Klingenschmitt. 


Teaching continued by Gordon JamesKlingenschmitt

Thanksagain, Mark.  Did you know the Apostle John lived a holylife? 

           (Lower) “John wasn’t holy,” says Pastor Loophole. “John said ‘If we claim to be without sin, wedeceive ourselves and the truth is not in us.’ [16]

Ah, yes. John wouldn’t claim to never have sinned.  Only Jesushas never sinned.  Anyone who claims they’ve neversinned is a liar!  But what happened after Johnconfessed and repented of his sins?  The next verse says, Ifwe confess our sins, [God] is faithful and just and willforgive us our sins and purify us from allunrighteousness.[17]  Was John purified from allunrighteousness, or do you think he just kept on sinning until hedied?

           He must have been purified, because he later wrote, “Noone who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues tosin has either seen him or known him…No one who is born ofGod will continue to sin,…he cannot go on sinning, becausehe has been born of God.”[18]


Did youknow the Apostle Thomas lived a holy life? 

           (Lower) “Thomas was not holy,” says Pastor Loophole. “That’s why they called him the doubting Thomas!” Yes, but that’s before he repented.  After he repented,he called Jesus “My Lord and My God!”[19] Then he became a missionary to India, andbecame a martyr, like the other holy, holy disciples who followedJesus.  Can we at least be as holy as Thomas was, and repentand call Jesus, “my Lord and my God?”


Did youknow the Apostle Peter walked in actual holiness, just like Jesusdid?

           (Lower) “Peter wasn’t holy,” says Pastor Loophole. “Peter denied Jesus three times!”  Well, yes, hedid.  But that was before.  After he repented of that,God empowered him to live a holy life, and he preached, ”justas he who called you is holy, so be holy in all you do; for it iswritten: “Be holy.”[20]  And he also wrote: hewho has suffered in his body is done with sin.”[21] Now when Peter wassuffering and being crucified upside down for his faith, was hedone with sin by that point, or do you think Peter continued tosin right up until he died?  No.  Peter said, “hewho has suffered in his body is done with sin.” 


NowJesus and the Apostles weren’t the only people to walk inconsistent holiness for an extended period of time.  Many ofthe early Christians everywhere lived holy lives.   

           Peter wrote to them, “You have purified yourselves byobeying the truth so that you have sincere love for yourbrothers…you are a chosen people, a royal priesthood, a holynation, a people belonging to God…”[22]  They were a holynation, not unholy. 


And manyat the Church at Corinth were holy. 

           Some preachers label the Corinthians as ‘carnalChristians.’  But there’s no such thing as acarnal Christian.  God only sees Christians, andnon-Christians who pretend that they’re saved and going toheaven when they’re really not.  Anyway, Paul describedthe Corinthians as “those sanctified in ChristJesus…who call on the name of our Lord JesusChrist—their Lord and ours…He will keep you strong tothe end, so that you will be blameless on the day of our LordJesus Christ [23]…[Carnalsinners] is what some of you were.  But you were washed,you were sanctified…” [24]


And manyof the Philippians lived in sinless perfection. 

           Paul commended them, “you have always obeyed— notonly in my presence, but now much more in my absence.” [25] They always obeyed?  If they can always obey, we can too. 


Manymembers of the Church in Rome lived in sinless perfection. 

           Paul wrote, “thanks be to God that, though you used to beslaves to sin, you wholeheartedly obeyed theform of teaching to which you were entrusted.  You have beenset free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.”[26] They weren’t slaves to sin anymore, they were slaves torighteousness.  Wow! 


Now ifall these people in the Bible were able to walk in actualholiness, just like Jesus did, then do you still think it’simpossible for you to walk like Jesus did?  Holinessisn’t optional, it’s mandatory.  If you don’twalk like Jesus did, don’t claim to be a Christian.  TheBible says, anyone who claims to live in him must walk asJesus did.  And if you continue to sin, don’t claimto be born again.  The Bible says no one who is born ofGod will continue to sin.  He cannot go on sinning becausehe has been born of God.


Now Iagree that all of us, even seasoned Christians and myself, maystumble into sin now and then, but you know the biggestdifference between Christians and non-Christians is thatChristians don’t continue to sin.  When they fall down,they get up again, and they repent.  The Bible says, thougha righteous man falls seven times, he rises again.  Butif you continue to sin, and you don’t get up again when youfall, and you don’t turn back to God, then God does notforgive your sins.  The Bible says in Hebrews 10, if wedeliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledgeof the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, but only a fearfulexpectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume theenemies of God.  So if you’ve failed, andyou’ve sinned, don’t deliberately keep on sinning. Get up one more time than you fall.  Return to God everytime you sin—don’t just lay there and wallow in yoursins.


(Higher) “But what if I lived a holy life for many years,” asksJohnny Lukewarm, “and then just a split-second before death,I had one tiny lustful thought, and then I got hit by a truck andI died before I could repent.  Would God send me to hellthen?”  Hmmm… Let me think for a moment. Yes, Johnny, you would go to hell, because right now your heartis unchanged and unrepentant.  The reason you even ask thisquestion is because you’re looking for some loophole, so youdon’t have to live a holy life.  What you’rereally asking is “how much sin can I get away with, andstill go to heaven?”  But God sees right through youragenda, and God demands your unconditional surrender. 

           Now if you really lived a holy life and then you sinned just asplit-second before death, and it was physically impossible torepent, then repentance wouldn’t be required.  Butreally, most people who ask this question wallow in their sinsfor years and years, avoiding all the multitudes of opportunitiesto repent, and they delay and delay and put it off, and then theydie suddenly, and unexpectedly, and they’re cast into hell. So here’s the bottom line—Don’t delay repentance,do it today, right now.  Don’t die with unconfessed sinin your life.  Confess and forsake all known sins, rightnow.  Be ready at all times.  Keep your lamp full ofoil.  Keep watch, because you do not know the day or thehour.[27] Live a holy life. 

           Most people wait and wait to repent, and they enjoy their sins asalong as they can, hoping someday they can do a deathbedconfession, and they can slide on into heaven.  Ifthat’s you, I can just about guarantee you won’t makeit.  Judgment will come to you suddenly and unexpectedly. Like a thief in the night, when you’re not expecting it. And you won’t be ready, unless you repent right now.  Todayis the day of your salvation.  God demands you repentimmediately. 

Let’spray together.  Would you stop what you’re doing andpray these words with me, to God.  Go ahead and say them outloud: 

           “Father in heaven, I confess that I’ve been delayingrepentance, and I’ve been wallowing in my sins, andI’ve been hoping that holiness was optional.  But deepdown I know that’s a lie. 

I knowthat repentance and holiness are not optional, they’remandatory.  So right now I repent and I turn to God.  Iforsake all my known sins, and I choose to walk in holiness fromthis day forward, consistently, until I die.  God have mercyon me, a sinner.  God I invite you to personally come andrule my heart right now, I pray in Jesus name.  Amen.” 

           Did you just pray with me?  If you prayed with me, would youraise your right hand up to God?  Wherever you are,it’s OK.  Just raise your right hand up to God, as asign that you prayed with me and gave your heart back to him. Some of you are receiving a physical healing in your bodies rightnow, as God’s loving rulership takes over in your heart. But if you prayed with me, can I ask you to write to me and get acopy of this book you’re hearing me teach from?  Wehave to skip over the next two loopholes, about waiting for Godto make you repent, and about Pelagianism.  So you’llhave to get our book, because in our very next broadcast,we’ll finally talk about eternal security.  So pleasetune in again next time.  Now I love you and I care aboutyou.  So here’s Mark with more information. 


Closing trailer by Mark McWilliams… 

Thanks Gordon, and thanks everybody forlistening. Do you know somebody who needs to hear today’smessage?  If you call our toll-free number in the next hour,866-Obey-God, we’ll mail you a free cassette tape oftoday’s broadcast, which you can copy and give to yourfriends. All our tapes are copyable and free, but please rememberthat we need your donations to stay on the air and to give awaythese free tapes.  So please pray and obey God about howmuch these teachings are worth to you, and return to us your bestpossible gift after you receive your free cassette.  (Gordon: Hey time out!  If it’s your first time contacting us,no donation is required!  Just call us!)  Our toll freenumber is 866-Obey-God, that’s 1-866-O-B-E-Y-G-O-D,and please specify you’re requesting today’s program. Now do you believe America needs to hear these messages?  Ifso, we’re specifically asking you to join thePersuader’s Club, and to sponsor this radio broadcast with amonthly pledge of just $15.  If you join thePersuader’s Club as a monthly partner, we’ll send youan autographed copy of the book you’ve been hearing, writtenand taught by Gordon James Klingenschmitt, entitled,“License To Sin, The Number One Reason America Is Losing ItsMoral Foundation.”  Just visit our web-site  That’s It’s the monthly donations of our Persuader’s Clubpartners who keep this program on the air.  Now if you havecomments or questions about today’s broadcast, you can emailus at  “,” Or you canwrite to us.  Or you can always call us toll free, at866-Obey-God.  And if you remember, please tell us the callsign of the radio station you’re listening to.  May Godbless you, and thank you for supporting Persuade The WorldMinistries.  Knowing therefore the terror of the Lord, wepersuade men. 


<Manymore transcripts and free MP3 radio shows CLICK HERE>

[1] KJV, NAS, ASV, and other translations usethe word “flesh” instead of “sinful nature.”

[2] Rom 8:9 (NIV)

[3] 1 Cor 10:13 (NIV)

[4] I Jn 4:4 (KJV)

[5]James 4:17 (NIV)

[6]Heb 4:15 (NIV)

[7]Romans 3:23 (NIV)

[8]I Jn 1:8 (KJV)

[9]1 Kings 15:5 (NIV)

[10] James 2:18 (NIV)

[11] Rom 7:15 (NIV) 

[12] 1 Cor 4:4 (NIV)

[13] 2 Cor 1:12 (NIV)

[14] 1 Thes 2:10 (NIV)

[15] 1 Cor 1:30 (NCV)

[16] 1 John 1:8 (NIV)

[17] 1 John 1:9 (NIV)

[18] 1 John 3:6,9 (NIV)

[19] John 20:28 (NIV)

[20] 1 Pet 1:15-16 (NIV)

[21] 1 Pet 4:1-2 (NIV)

[22] 1 Pet 1:22, 2:9 (NIV)

[23] 1 Cor 1:2,8 (NIV)

[24] 1 Cor 6:11 (NIV)

[25] Phil 2:12 (NIV)

[26] Rom 6:17-18 (NIV)

[27] See Matthew25:1-13 (NIV)